At last month’s Bio-IT World Conference & Expo, Eleanor Howe, founder and CEO of Diamond Age Data Science, presented the Trends with the Trenches session based on gathered input from colleagues, clients, and advisors across the life sciences field. Coding agents were the central topic—how they’re speeding up software development, open source maintenance, and analysis workflows while also shifting new types of responsibility to the human reviewer. Now, “just coding” is no longer enough, and Howe provides advice for early-career scientists on how to get hired in a different environment. Plus, she covers why simulating data can backfire, why smaller purpose-built models often win, and why better data curation, active learning, ELN automation, and federation may matter more than another flashy model demo.
GUEST BIO
Eleanor Howe, Founder and CEO, Diamond Age Data Science
Eleanor has been working at the cutting edge of bioinformatics for over 20 years. As founder of Diamond Age, she led the company’s evolution from a small, project-based service provider to a full-fledged consultancy that works closely with clients to tackle their most difficult research challenges. Trained as a computational biologist, Eleanor has deep expertise in transcriptional profiling as well as drug discovery and development. She earned her doctorate degree in bioinformatics from Oxford University and spent years in biomedical research at The Institute for Genomic Research, Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, and The Broad Institute.
TRANSCRIPT
Conference Session Setup And Context
Announcement
Welcome
to
BioIT
World's
Trends
from
the
Trenches
podcast,
your
insider's
look
at
the
science,
technology,
and
executive
trends
driving
the
life
sciences.
In
this
special
episode,
we
bring
you
the
Trends
from
the
Trenches
session,
hosted
by
Eleanor
Howe,
held
last
month
at
the
BioIT
World
Conference
in
Expo.
Let's
listen
in.
Eleanor Howe
Hi,
everybody.
My
name's
Eleanor
Howe.
I
am
the
founder
of
Diamond
Age
Data
Science.
I'm
a
computational
biologist
myself.
And
I'm
going
to
tell
you
about
what
I'm
seeing
in
the
field
these
days.
In
the
last,
I
tried
to
focus
on
the
last
12
months
or
so.
One
of
the
differences
in
how
I'm
going
to
give
my
talk
is
I
don't
talk
as
fast
as
Chris
does.
No
one
has
seen
my
slides
until
now,
actually.
All
right.
And
I
did
a
bunch
of
interviews
with
folks.
I
relied
on
information
from
my
team
and
my
clients,
but
then
I
also
reached
out
to
my
friends
and
colleagues
and
asked
them,
like,
what
are
you
seeing
as
far
as
trends
in
the
industry?
So
this
is
informed
by
trusted
advisors
of
mine
as
well.
I
am
a
consultant.
I
want
you
guys
to
think
I'm
smart.
Do
you
guys
read
Dungeon
Crawler
Carl?
It's
an
amazing,
yes.
Okay,
all
right.
So
it's
awesome.
It's
a
science
fiction
book,
and
one
of
the
characters
is
very
straightforward.
Don't
trust
people
unless
you
know
where
they're
coming
from.
So
I'm
coming
from
a
scientific
background.
I'm
coming
from
a
space
of
providing
services
into
our
industry.
I
don't
have
a
product
to
sell.
And
I'm
going
to
tell
you
what
people
are
seeing
and
what
we
are
seeing.
I
hate
this
word.
I
hate
it
so
much.
AI
is
an
overused
marketing
term
that
is
no
longer
informative.
And
so
what
I'm
going
to
try
to
do
today
is
to
not
use
it
very
much.
And
instead,
I'm
going
to
talk
about
the
specific
sub-technologies
that
are
actually
useful
and
talk
about
what
they
can
do
and
what
they
can't.
And
I
recommend
that
anytime
somebody
tries
to
sell
you
on
something
in
AI,
you
ask
them,
well,
what
kind
of
AI
are
you
talking
about?
Tell
me
more
than
that,
because
you
could
be
talking
about
a
linear
model.
This
is
the
big news.
Coding Agents Change Daily Work
Eleanor Howe
Coding
agents,
everyone
I
talk
to,
everyone
on
my
team,
everyone
of
my
clients,
this
is
the
thing
that's
changing
the
way
that
we
work.
Bioinformaticians
are
able
to
write
more
code
in
less
time,
and
they're
able
to
build
bigger
things
in
the
same
amount
of
time.
Biologists
are
able
to
write
their
own
plots.
They're
able
to
do
some
analysis
for
better
or
for
worse.
And
it's
changing
everything
about
our
day-to-day
work.
We
spend
our
time
interacting
with
the
coding
agent
rather
than
directly
manipulating
code,
which
is
a
pretty
intense
activity,
actually.
Coding
can
be
relaxing,
but
working
with
an
agent
is
not.
There used to be a pipeline for talented, smart, interested people who could write code but were not biologists to come into our field because they could code and we needed their help. And
they
were
welcome.
That
path
is
closed.
Being
somebody
who
just
codes
now
is
actually
not
helpful
in
our
field.
You
need
to
know
some
science.
There's
a
huge
benefit
to
open
source
software
development
now.
This
is
just
one
example
of
somebody
who
has
ported
an
entire
gigantic,
well-loved,
detail-oriented,
incredibly
essential
library
into
another
programming
language
in
a
week
for
$500.
It
would
have
taken
him,
according
to
him,
months
to
do
this
without
a
coding
agent
to
help
him,
but
he
could
do
it
now.
So
he
could
carve
out
a
week
to
do
this
work.
He
could
not
carve
out
three
months
to
do
it.
Eleanor Howe
This
is
going
to
be
a
huge
benefit
to
open
source
software
package
maintenance
and
upgrades
and
everything.
And
that's
really
good
because
there's
not
a
lot
of
money
going
around
supporting
open
source
software.
There
never
was.
And
now
maybe
it's
going
to
be
worse.
Chatbots,
LLMs,
also
good
for
things
that
are
not
coding
agents.
Literature
summarization
is
way,
way
more
fun
to
do.
Now
it
takes
less
time.
You
can
ask
Claude
to
poke
holes
in
your
hypotheses.
That's
also
kind
of
fun.
I'm
hearing
that
from
people.
They're
like
setting
up
specific
rags
with
Claude
or
other
LLMs
to
help
them
understand
their
biology
and
then
to
act
as
a,
I
don't
know,
an
interested
opponent
in
discussing
what
they
do
and
what
they're
trying
to
do
and
what
their
hypothesis
is.
Results
summarization,
probably
everybody
is
doing
this.
You
pile
a
whole
crap
ton
of
data
into
the
prompt
and
you
just
say,
What
is
the
theme
here?
You
know,
of
course,
the
problem
with
chatbots
is
is
well
known.
It
they
will
be
confidently
wrong
and
tell
you
something.
And
you
have
to
be
on
guard
for
that
at
all
times.
That's
another
one
of
the
reasons
that
working
with
these
systems
is
quite
tiring.
Jobs Anxiety And Junior Advice
Eleanor Howe
Some folks
are
pretty
worried
about
their
jobs.
That's
what
that's
what
I
hear.
I
get
it.
Our
jobs
are
changing.
People
are
worried
that
there
won't
be
as
many
jobs
for
bioinformatics
folks.
It's
true
it's
changing.
I'm
not
convinced
that
we're
going
to
disappear
because
there's
still
a
lot
of
work
to
do,
and
these
agents
generate
more
data
than
they
used
to.
There's
more
results
to
look
at,
there's
more
stuff
to
do.
And
I'm
getting
mixed,
mixed
input
from
the
people
that
I'm
talking
to
about
how
this
change
in
our
work
is
affecting
hiring
or
not.
So
one
of
the
things,
I
don't
think
bioinformaticians
are
gonna
go
away,
right?
My
team
uses
these
agents
every
day,
and
they
spend
a
lot
of
time
correcting
what's
wrong
and
guiding
the
agent.
They're
essential.
I
I
pay
them.
I
know
that
I
need
them.
I
would
not
pay
them
otherwise.
I'm
a
business
person,
right?
Like
really,
it's
it's
they're
essential.
I
really
feel
bad
for
the
junior
folks
who
are
trying
to
get
jobs
in
our
field
because
it
is
a
tough,
tough,
tough
job
market
out
there
for
them.
For
those
folks,
I'm
sorry,
it's
rough
out
there.
Your
resume
is
not
the
issue.
Don't
waste
all
of
your
time
tuning
it.
Try
to
get
some
world
world
real
world
experience
because
that's
the
thing
that
really
matters.
And
boy,
look
twice
at
any
paid
degree
program
because
the
degree
programs
that
I'm
most
familiar
with
don't
provide
the
kind
of
training
that
is
actually
really
useful
now.
They
teach
you
how
to
write
code,
how
to
string
pipelines
together,
and
that
kind
of
thing
is
not
as
differentiating
as
it
used
to
be.
Go
for
an
education
that
teaches
you
how
to
manage
yourself,
manage
complex
projects,
persevere
in
the
face
of
things
getting
really
messed
up
and
not
working
for
long
periods
of
time,
handling
complex
interacting
priorities.
So
I'm
thinking
PhD
programs
actually,
not
bad
at
this.
The
right
thesis-based
master's
program
potentially
could
do
this
as
well.
Eleanor Howe
Oh,
there's
something
wrong
with
my
slides.
Yeah,
okay,
there's
supposed
to
be
a
quote
on
one
of
these
slides
that
says,
I
don't
think
I'll
ever
hire
another
junior
bioinformatician.
Sorry,
it
didn't
come
through.
And
that's
from
a
senior
bioinformatics
leader
at
a
major
pharma
company.
And
when
he
was
explaining
to
me
how
his
perspective
on
jobs
in
our
space
has
changed.
And
then
on
the
next
slide,
this
one
that
is
completely
empty,
it
all
it
is
supposed
to
say,
I
don't
remember
the
quote
exactly,
but
something
to
the
effect
of
some
companies
are
only
hiring
junior
people
because
they
are
more
AI
forward.
And
that
came
from
a
person
who
works
with
venture
startup
companies
that
are
generating
brand
new
small
biotechs.
So
opinions
vary.
I
don't
think
we
really
know
what's
going
to
shake
out
from
this.
But
you
know,
there's
hope.
There
is,
there,
there
are
jobs
out
there
for
junior
people.
Okay,
Enable Tools Or Lose Your IP
Eleanor Howe
so
the
upshot
of
coding
agents
from
from
my
perspective
is
you
must
enable
them
in
your
organization.
If
if
you're
in
an
organization
that's
saying
we
don't
do
chatbots,
do
not
use
ChatGPT,
don't
use
anything,
your
people
are
copying
and
pasting
into
the
open
source,
into
the
free
version
of
these
tools,
and
you're
losing
stuff.
You're
losing
your
IP.
It's
really
important
to
go
and
license
something
that's
going
to
protect
your
company
and
insist
that
people
use
that.
I
also
recommend
not
marrying
one
of
the
products
right
now.
They
they're
changing
very
rapidly.
Each
of
them
is
good
at
something
different.
And
next
year
it'll
be
totally
different
which
one
is
the
best
for
your
current
use
case.
If
you
are
building
platforms,
I
would
say
try
to
make
them
LLM
agnostic,
build
a
flexible
interface
on
that
could
be
switched
between
many
of
them
or
use
all
of
them
at
the
same
time,
possibly.
Pricing
is
in
the
Uber
subsidization
mode.
Remember
when
Uber
was
cheap?
The
investors
were
subsidizing
it
because
it
was
in
a
fight
with
Lyft
and
they
were
trying
to
get
market
share.
And
then
once
Uber
stopped
being
able
to
get
investors
and
to
pour
money
and
they
needed
to
make
a
profit,
then
the
prices
rose
and
rose.
And
that's
where
we're
going
here.
Every
week
I
feel
like
I
get
another
notice
from
Google
saying
your
pricing
on
your
Gemini
account
is
going
up.
I
don't
know
if
you
guys
have
all
seen
2001,
but
spoiler
alert,
HAL
9000
is
the
spaceship
that
or
is
the
AI
that
runs
the
spaceship
and
goes
crazy
at
the
end
of
the
movie
and
basically
kills
everybody.
And
it
is
very
confident
about
its
decision
to
do
so
because
that's
they
he's
it's
preserving
the
mission.
This
is
the
problem
that
we
all
know
about
LLMs.
They
are
confidently
wrong
and
they
need
a
lot
of
guidance
in
order
to
do
the
right
thing.
Also,
I
really
wanted
to
put
this
picture
in
my
slide
deck.
All
right.
So
AlphaFold And Structural Biology Wins
Eleanor Howe
non-LLM-based
systems.
So
I'm
moving
more
into
foundation
models
here.
Alpha
Fold
is
one
of
the
technologies
that
has
properly
changed
one
of
the
fields
in
drug
discovery,
and
that
is
the
structural
biology
field.
People
who
are
working
with
antibody-based
drugs,
they
all
use
Alpha
Fold.
Everybody
is
using
it,
it's
all
over
the
place,
and
it
causes,
it's
causing
real
reductions
in
the
amount
of
time
it
takes
to
develop
a
new
drug.
Like
I
know
of
a
company
that
designed
a
new
antibody,
and
it
wasn't
a
standard
antibody,
it
was
one
of
these
fancy
ones
with
modifications.
Designed
it
in
silico
and
then
grew
it
up
in
cells
and
sent
it
up
to
be
crystallized,
got
the
crystallized
structure
back
and
compared
it
to
the
designed
structure,
and
it
matched,
it
matched
within
an
angstrom,
and
they
were
able
to
go
right
into
trials
with
it.
And
that
is
game-changing
for
an
early
stage
biologics
company.
So
that
cuts,
I
don't
know,
a
year,
maybe
two
years
off
of
development
time.
It's
huge.
It
is
huge.
And
Alpha
Fold
and
Friends,
there
are
others,
are
all
over
the
place.
Any
company
that's
doing
any
kind
of
structural
biology
is
using
these
in
great
depth.
Boltz
2
is
a
tool
that
is
used
for
chemical
affinity
binding.
It
is
also
heavily
used
and
it's
very
good
at
its
job.
So
there's
a
lot
of
good
structural
biology
models
out
there
that
are
really
helping
move
drug
discovery
forward.
Eleanor Howe
On
the
other
hand,
Alpha
Genome
is
a
model
that
predicts
transcriptional
profiling
or
transcriptional
outputs
after
mutations
in
DNA,
right?
So
this
is
another
model
that
doesn't
do
as
well
as
Alpha
Fold.
It
cannot
predict
outside
of,
not
meaningfully
outside
of
its
own
training
data,
and
it
doesn't
it
doesn't
predict
accurately
the
outcome
of
mutating
housekeeping
genes.
Housekeeping
genes
are
the
ones
that
definitionally
are
required
to
keep
the
lights
on
in
the
cell,
and
knocking
out
one
of
these
housekeeping
genes
kills
the
cell.
And
so
you
can
see
why
this
system
wouldn't
be
able
to
predict
the
outcome
of
that
because
you
can't
train
on
dead
cells.
So
there's
a
hole
in
the
training
data,
and
so
you
can't
predict
anything
there.
Why
the
difference?
So
Alpha
Fold
succeeded
because
they
had
a
really
tractable
biological
problem.
It's
a
clear
outcome
that
they're
looking
for,
they
want
structure,
and
then
they
had
a
beautiful
data
set
to
use,
this
protein
databank
that
was
30,
40
years,
I
forget
how
long,
of
thousands
of
scientists
building
structures,
measuring
really
very
precisely
these
protein
structures,
and
then
depositing
them
into
the
database
in
a
structure
that
was
enforced.
You
weren't
allowed
to
put
the
data
into
this
database
in
any
other
way
except
in
the
appropriate
format.
And
so
when
Google
came
along
and
decided
to
build
this,
the
AlphaFold
system,
they
had
a
pretty
darn
good
data
resource
available.
They
still
had
to
do
a
lot
of
work
to
clean
it
up.
There
was
a
lot
there,
but
they
had
something
really
good.
Eleanor Howe
And
then
they
also
built
a
biologically
aware
algorithm.
It
includes
a
bunch
of
multiple
alignment
data,
so
phylogenetic
data
to
supplement
its
findings,
and
it
does
a
great
job.
Whereas
to
me,
transcriptional
profiling
is
a
much
bigger
problem
because
in
what
there
are
20
amino
acids.
If
you
want
to
predict
a
protein
structure,
you
have
20
types
of
things
to
work
with.
And
yeah,
they
can
move
together
in
a
lot
of
different
ways,
but
fundamentally
that
problem
is
much
closer
to
physics
than
transcriptional
profiling
is.
Transcriptional
profiling,
you
have
25,000
genes-ish,
and
how
many
transcripts
per
gene,
you've
got
a
lot
of
degrees
of
freedom.
And
each
of
those
transcripts
is
affected
by,
you
know,
the
sex
of
the
organism
it
came
from,
the
tissue
type,
the
age,
whether
or
not
the
air
conditioning
was
on
in
the
lab
that
day,
everything.
There's
just
tons
and
tons
of
inputs
that
don't
really
apply
to
that
structural
data.
So
those
things
don't
really
help
very
much
yet.
So
Why Big Biology Models Struggle
Eleanor Howe
we
could
solve
that
by
simulating
data,
right?
Why
don't
we
simulate
the
data
and
then
train
on
that?
This
is
a
terrible
idea.
This
is
the
worst
idea.
If
you
simulate
data,
okay,
let's
go
generate
some
data.
Is
it
perfect?
No,
it's
not
gonna
be
perfect.
There's
gonna
be
problems
with
it.
And
then
if
you
train
on
that
imperfect
data,
you
learn
all
the
imperfections.
And
then
you
generate
more
data
with
more
of
those
imperfections
and
then
train
on
that.
Like
you're
gonna
just
keep
building
and
building
and
creating
bigger
and
bigger
problems,
like
this
guy
who's
chewing
on
his
tail
here.
Eleanor Howe
There's
a
metaphor
for
this
that
I
love
in
breeding.
The
Habsburg
family.
Are
you
guys
familiar
with
these
folks?
They
ruled
Europe
for
like
three,
four
hundred
years,
and
they
kept
power
by
marrying
each
other,
right?
So
there's
lots
of
cousin
marriages
and
uncles
marrying
nieces
and
all
kinds
of
stuff.
And
they
became
known
for
epilepsy
and
insanity
and
early
death
and
the
Habsburg
jaw,
right?
Where
their
jaw,
they
they
would
have
this
look
at
this
picture
here.
This
guy
has
got
some
problems.
There's
a
zoom
in
here.
So
this
is
not
a
problem
with
perspective.
This
painter
knew
what
he
was
doing.
These
are
royal
court
painters
that
made
these
paintings,
and
they
were
incentivized
to
make
their
subjects
look
good,
right?
And
this
is
the
best
they
could
do.
So
don't
simulate
and
try
to
train
on
that.
I
mean,
in
small
use
cases
that
can
work,
but
they're
very
limited.
Okay,
so
the
things
that
are
working
are
these
smaller
purpose-built
models,
right?
That's
the
stuff
that
can
work.
People
have
a
scientific
goal,
a
specific
goal,
and
build
a
small
disease-specific
or
tissue-specific
or
whatever
model,
and
then
train
and
then
generate
data
specifically
to
build
that
model.
And
then
that
becomes
a
useful
predictive
tool.
The
kitchen
sink
method
of
collecting
all
of
the
data
and
putting
it
into
a
model
and
trying
to
build
a
foundation
model
out
of
that,
it's
not
going
to
work
in
biology
the
way
it
has
worked
for
the
human
language.
And
there's
a
couple
of
reasons
for
that.
And
one
of
the
reasons
is
I
think
biology
is
more
complicated
than
English.
Eleanor Howe
And
also,
humans
talk
all
the
time
and
everything
they
say
goes
on
the
internet,
right?
And
so
the
training
data
is
like
everything
any
person
has
ever
written
on
the
internet
ever,
plus
all
the
books
ever
published,
right?
So
anything
humans
care
to
talk
about
has
been
put
into
those
big
foundation
models.
We
have
not
put
all
of
biology
onto
the
internet.
There
is
way
less
of
it.
There's
a
very
limited
set
of
data.
People
talk
about,
oh,
but
geo,
the
gene
expression
omnibus,
it's
so
big,
there's
so
many
things
in
there,
but
it's
nothing
compared
to
the
complexity
of
an
actual
cell,
and
then
let
alone
like
a
body
full
of
cells
or
a
population
of
people
full
of
bodies.
So
there
are
efforts
to
remedy
some
of
these
situations
to
try
to
figure
out
what
is
needed
in
order
to
build
some
meaningful
foundation
models,
at
what
scale,
where
where
how
can
we
generate
the
right
data
to
do
some
drug
discovery?
So,
this
project
from
Illumina's
got
a
consortium
with
AstraZeneca
and
Lily,
and
at
least
one
more
pharma
company,
I
can't
remember,
and
they're
collecting
single-cell
RNA-seq
data
to
try
to
build
some
good
models
that
will
accelerate
drug
discovery.
I
think
this
is
the
right
approach.
They're
doing
something,
they
are
planning
ahead
of
time
to
build
these
models,
and
so
they're
generating
the
data
in
a
consistent
way,
in
a
consistent
format,
with
a
specific
set
of
lines
and
conditions
that
they
want
to
go
over,
and
they're
planning
to
try
building
more
models
to
predict,
in
this
case,
response
to
perturbogens.
So
perturbogens
being
drugs,
something
that
would
perturb
the
cell,
it's
basically
poking
the
cell
in
some
way.
So
a
gene
knockout,
a
gene
overexpression,
or
a
drug.
This,
I
think,
is
one
good
way
to
go,
but
a
billion
cells
is
not
enough
in
part
because
single
cell
tends
to,
I
don't
know
how
many
cells
they're
going
to
use
per
sample
here,
but
a
typical
experiment
would
have
5,000
cells
per
sample,
which
would
mean
that
there's
only
actually
200,000
samples
in
this
data
set,
and
that's
not
very
much.
I
don't
know
what
they're
actually
doing
as
far
as
replicates
go.
Okay.
ELNs With Chatbots Plus Active Learning
Eleanor Howe
Another
trend
that
I'm
seeing
is,
and
this
is
a
trend
that
goes
way
back.
Scientists
hate
ELNs.
They
have
always
hated
ELNs
because
curating
data
is
a
pain
in
the
neck,
right?
And
many
companies
they
can't
pay
their
scientists
enough
to
actually
put
the
data
in
the
ELN.
But
but
now
we
have
these
chatbots,
these
LLMs
who
can
assist
with
that,
and
that
is
really
effective,
right?
If
if
you've
got
a
problem
with
getting
data
into
the
ELN,
you've
got
high-throughput
screening
data,
you've
got
anything
else
large.
One
of
the
things
we've
had
success
with
is
building
a
chatbot
and
then
some
back-end
code
that
talks
to
the
scientists
and
sort
of
says,
hey,
we
need
to
know
X,
we
need
to
know
Y,
and
then
can
take
kind
of
an
arbitrarily
structured
Excel
spreadsheet
and
turn
it
into
the
right
format
that
it
can
actually
be
uploaded
into
the
right
database.
And
then
that
data
becomes
usable
for
training
foundational
models.
Imagine
that.
So
LLMs
are
the
solution
to
their
own
problem.
Eleanor Howe
Active
learning
is
one
of
the
things
that's
actually
functional.
This
is,
and
this
is
simply
the
this
is
a
whole
area
of
expertise
here
of
assessing
a
data
set
and
figuring
out
what
data
would
most
meaningfully
improve
the
predictive
power
of
this
data
set.
And
then
servicing
those
experiments
and
directing
this,
and
this
is
how
you
direct
your
research
program
to
do
fewer
measurements.
It
reduces
the
number
of
experiments
that
you
have
to
do
in
order
to
get
the
right
data
in-house
to
build
a
useful
predictive
model.
This
is
something
that
I
first
heard
about
in
the
small
molecules
space.
I
was
actually
here
at
BioIT
World
on
the
show
floor,
one
of
the
,
forget
the
name
of
the
company,
built
something
like
this
for
small
molecules.
It
was
very
impressive.
I
think
they
won
best
of
show,
actually.
Announcement
Are
you
enjoying
the
conversation?
We'd
love
to
hear
from
you.
Please
subscribe
to
the
podcast
and
give
us
a
rating.
It
helps
other
people
find
and
join
the
conversation.
If
you've
got
speaker
or
topic
ideas,
we'd
love
to
hear
those
too.
You
can
send
them
in
a
podcast
review.
Eleanor Howe
Okay. Federation is starting to work.
Federated Weights Negative Results Public Data
Eleanor Howe
One
of
the
problems
with
federation
is
people
don't
want
to
share
their
data.
But
if
instead
you
build
a
model
and
the
model
is
a
bunch
of
weights,
and
you
cannot
you
can't
get
the
data
back.
Once
you
make
the
weights,
if
you
can
hand
those
weights
around,
and
the
people
who
have
it
cannot
extrapolate
back
to
the
original
data.
And
so
folks
are
realizing
that
that
is
a
safe
way
to
federate.
So
people
can
combine
data
sets
from
different
companies
together
and
have
a
more
powerful
system
this
way.
Lily's
Toon
Lab
is
one
example
of
one
of
these
places
where,
and
this
is
for
admi
compound
assessment.
That's
what
this
Toon
Lab
is
for,
but
there
are
other
examples.
LifeBit
is
doing
something
like
this
too.
There's
a
huge
bias
in
publication.
I
think
everybody
has
heard
about
this.
This
missing
data
that
is
it
it
it's
people
don't
publish
negative
results,
right?
If
the
results
from
your
lab
experiment
don't
work,
that
that
just
gets
shoved
aside
and
never
published.
And
then
the
next
scientist
goes
and
does
that
experiment
and
it
doesn't
work
again
and
they
don't
publish
it.
And
so
nobody
knows.
And
then
the
third
scientist
goes
and
runs
that
experiment
because
it's
a
good
idea
and
it
doesn't
work
and
still
nobody
knows
about
it.
This
negative
results
problem
persists,
it
has
persisted
for
a
very
long
time.
Eleanor Howe
And
this
is
something
that
I
have
no
idea
how
to
solve
this
problem.
But
if
we
published
all
of
our
negative
results,
it
would
help
save
all
of
us
a
bunch
of
time
in
repeating
experiments
that
don't
work,
and
then
would
also
be
quite
informative
for
all
of
these
foundation
models
and
other
kinds
of
models
that
people
are
trying
to
build.
That
negative
data
is
actually
quite
informative.
The
data
sets
that
are
funded
by
NIH
funding
are
really
helpful
for
all
of
this
AI
stuff
we
all
want
to
do.
If
the
United
States
stops
generating
data,
we're
one
of
the
biggest
generators
of
useful
biological
data
out
there.
Small
companies
utterly
rely
on
the
public
data
sets,
like,
for
example,
TCGA
and
GTEx.
Like
we
use
those
every
day.
Every
single
cancer
company,
every
single
cancer
biotech
uses
the
TCGA
data
set.
And
if
NIH
doesn't
get
a
budget,
if
NIH
can't
be
funded,
there
will
be
no
future
TCGAs.
Eleanor Howe
And
that's
going
to
be
a
huge
loss
because
that
means
that
biotechnology
companies
won't
be
able
to
develop
drugs
in
any
kind
of
cost-efficient
way
because
they're
not
able
to
do
the
big
licensing
deals
with
the
large
players
that
have
data
sets,
right?
The
public
open
source
data
sets
are
real
enablers
in
this
space.
And
this
is
something
I
are
every
one
of
our
customers
uses
these
things.
So
that's
a
problem.
I
was
on
a
panel
yesterday.
There's
long
panel
talk
in
the
conference
app
that
you
can
watch
if
you
want
more
details.
And
then
the
Global
Alliance
for
Open
Science
ran
a
survey
and
is
doing
some
work
in
this
space.
So
I'll
put
the
link
in
here
if
you
guys
are
interested.
I
was
not
smart
enough
to
do
a
QR
code.
Sorry
about
that.
The
old
Old School Models Still Deliver
Eleanor Howe
models
still
work.
Okay,
it's
not
everything
has
to
be
a
transformer
model
or
a
deep
learning
or
deep
neural
network
or
whatever.
The
the
the
the
random
forest
was
a
great
is
a
great
method.
It
actually
works
really
well.
And
you
know,
we've
we've
done
some
testing.
We
found
that
like
a
lot
of
the
transformer
models
out
there
aren't
any
better
than
the
cheap,
old,
well-established
machine
learning
things
that
we've
had
for
a
long
time.
So
yeah,
we
try
the
older
stuff
first.
That's
that's
my
takeaway
from
that.
We
have
saved
our
clients
a
lot
of
money
by
saying,
like,
why
don't
we
try
a
linear
model
for
this
and
see
if
that
does
what
you
need
it
to.
And
then
you're
done
in
a
well,
it
would
be
a
day
now.
It
was
a
week
at
the
time.
All
Drug Discovery Reality And Bad Actors
Eleanor Howe
right,
drug
discovery.
There's
a
lot
of
hype
about
how
AI
is
impacting
the
drug
discovery
business.
I
think
that
it's
a
misconception
that
there
is
an
all-AI
drug
out
there.
Like
there
is
a
Hell
9000
that's
discovering
drugs
for
us
and
just
going
right
through
the
clinic
with
them.
That's
not
happening.
What's
actually
happening
is
every
company
out
there
is
integrating
all
of
these
different
technologies
that
get
lumped
together
under
the
label
AI.
They're
integrating
them
all
in
various
different
places
throughout
the
drug
discovery
funnel.
Every
step
of
it
is
having
and
is
being
impacted
by
these
technologies.
I
talked
already
about
the
structural
biology
impact,
like
that
is
a
real
thing
that
is
happening
all
the
time.
People
are
building
foundational
models
to
do
things
like
predict
transcription
to
limited
success.
People
are
using
coding
agents
all
the
time,
everybody's
using
that
all
the
time,
and
then
all
the
scientists
are
also
using
LLMs
to
help
them.
And
they're
writing
code
too,
and
a
lot
of
the
time
that
works
well.
But
the
the
clinic
has
not
yet
proven
out
whether
or
not
AI
as
a
unit
can
actually
do
drug
discovery.
This
is
another
one
where
there
should
be
a
quote.
Eleanor Howe
So
I'm
gonna
have
I
apologize,
folks.
I
should
have
checked
this.
There
is
a
quote
that
says,
Some
of
these
companies
give
me
Theranos
vibes.
You
see
why
I
wanted
it
on
there.
I
have
a
list
of
kind
of
anecdotal
stories
about
companies
behaving
badly
in
this
space.
And
I
want
to
say
first
that
not
all
of
them
are
doing
this,
obviously.
But
I
am
absolutely
gonna
bag
on
the
bad
players,
and
they're
out
there.
You
know,
I've
heard
and
and
seen
like
companies
scrub
the
attribution
section
of
a
paper
and
just
like
take
out
the
other
people's
names
and
present
it
as
if
it
was
their
own
work.
Companies,
and
and
and
it's
something
that
I
think
is
really
worth
watching
out
for
and
being
careful
about.
Some
companies
they
want
to
collaborate
with
you
and
they
will
ask
for
all
of
your
data.
And
you
and
they
assure
you
that
they're
not
going
to
do
anything
untoward
with
it,
but
I'm
not
really
convinced
that
everybody
is
entirely
trustworthy.
Certainly
some
people
are.
So
I
would
recommend
being
super
careful
who
you
share
your
data
with.
Maybe
consider
building
one
of
these
like
models
and
sharing
the
weights
with
the
other
organization
instead.
Okay,
so
a
couple
of
things
that
I
think
are
coming
up,
but
are
not
yet
actually
having
huge
impact
on
day-to-day
work.
So
Autonomous Agents And Virtual Cells
Eleanor Howe
I'm
seeing
a
lot
of
stuff
about
autonomous
scientific
agents.
I
saw
a
talk
about
it
today,
yesterday,
I
guess.
And
certainly
there's
a
lot
of
talk
about
the
AI
scientist.
I
have
not
yet
seen
any
AI
scientists
in
action.
And
in
fact,
all
of
my
pictures
are
gone.
I'm
really
sad
about
that.
Hmm,
that's
disappointing.
I
have
not
yet
seen
any
AI
scientists
in
action.
I've
seen
the
insides
of
a
lot
of
companies.
So
maybe
they're
coming.
They
are
not
here
yet.
Protein
affinity
modeling
is,
you
know,
that's
the,
you
know,
does
this
antibody
bind
to
this
protein
or
not?
That
is
something
that's
not
really
done
by
not
like
new
AI
tools,
right?
Alpha
Fold
doesn't
really
do
that
yet.
But
the
old
school
stuff
like
Schrdinger
is
still
what
people
are
using
for
that.
Virtual
cells
are
fascinating.
There
is
an
entire
talk
in
the
virtual
cell
topic
that
I'm
not
going
to
give
right
now.
But
this
link
here,
this
Substack
link,
is
by
a
guy
named
Gerald
Chendesh,
who
is
at
a
company
called
turbine.ai.
This
blog,
this
blog
post
is
well
worth
checking
out.
It's
got
an
incredible
summary
of
the
current
state
of
virtual
cells
as
a
concept,
and
then
a
roadmap
for
what
would
have
to
happen
for
us
to
actually
have
a
meaningfully
useful
virtual
cell
in
the
future.
Spoiler
alert,
we
don't
have
it
right
now.
You
start
with
that
that
model
that
predicts
transcriptional
profiling
changes
from
perturbations,
right?
And
so
we
have
some
limited
functionality
there
now,
but
we're,
you
know,
companies
and
and
other
and
organizations
are
working
on
building
out
from
that,
but
haven't
moved
much
beyond
it.
I
interviewed
a
bunch
of
people.
I've
got
a
list
at
the
end
of
the
talk.
I
interviewed
a
bunch
of
people
for
this,
and
and
I
would
always
end
every
interview
by
saying,
like,
what
are
we
missing?
Because
we
talk
about
AI
all
the
time.
And
and
the
answer
I
get
is,
well,
oh
yeah,
that's
that's
a
really
good
question.
So
I
thought
about
it
myself,
and
I
decided
that
this
is
one
of
the
things
that
people
are
not
paying
enough
attention
to.
So
I
did
my
PhD
in
bulk
RNA-seq
data
or
other
transcriptional
profiling
anyway,
microarrays.
I've
been
doing,
I've
been
working
intimately
with
bulk
RNA-seq
for
a
long
time.
Eleanor Howe
And
so
this
is
my
favorite,
right?
And
now
it
is
really
cheap.
It's
it
used
to
be
this
stuff
used
to
be
so
expensive.
And
now
we've
got
some
super
ultra
cheap
versions
of
low
pass,
three
prime
only
bulk
RNA-seq
readouts.
And
that
is
one
of
those,
this
is
one
of
those
things
that
you
know,
quantity
has
a
quality
all
its
own.
These
less
expensive
experiments
enable
a
whole
bunch
more
of
like
diagnostic
testing
of
ongoing
experiments
and
building
out
the
data
sets
that
you
would
need
to
build
a
proper
transformation
transformer
model
for
transcriptional
profiling
data,
right?
If
you
like
80
bucks
a
sample,
is
I
remember
when
these
were
$1,000
a
sample.
And
a
three-day
turnaround
time
is
pretty
nice.
The
Lynx
project
from
NIH
is,
you
know,
this
project
is,
I
don't
know,
10
years
old.
No,
way
more
than
that,
actually.
It's
quite
old.
This
was
a
project
to
measure
the
transcriptome
in
a
systematic
way
across
many
cell
lines
and
under
the
effect
of
many
perturbogens
and
to
build
a
model
of
the
sort
of
the
state
of
the
cell
based
on
a
profile
of
a
thousand
transcripts,
right?
And
you
know,
the
folks
tried
to
predict
the
thousand
transcripts
that
were
most
representative
of
the
cell's
state
and
all
that.
And
they
built
a
pretty
useful
tool
that's
actually
pretty
good
for
saying,
like,
hey,
here's
my
new
compound.
I'm
gonna
drop
it
on
these
cells,
I'm
gonna
measure
those
thousand
genes,
I'm
gonna
compare
it
to
what's
in
the
rest
of
the
Lynx
database.
And
that's
going
to
show
me
what
gene
knockouts
are
most
similar
to
my
compounds
impact.
Eleanor Howe
And
that's
actually
a
really
great
way
to
do
some
mechanism
of
action
studies
much
better
this
project
would
be
if
we
had
an
actual
full
transcriptome,
right?
And
that's
approachable
now.
So
that
is
something
that
I
think
we're
going
to
see.
I
hope.
I
hope
somebody,
maybe
Lynx,
will
pick
this
up
and
actually
do
the
bulk
RNA-seq
experiment.
Even
if
they
don't,
pharma
companies
could
afford
this,
right?
And
I
think
that
for
this
would
be
a
really
great
way
to
push
forward
basic
drug
discovery
work
like
mechanism
of
actions
and
also
building
those
transformer
models.
Omics Costs Drop And New Assays
Eleanor Howe
In
other
omics
space,
I
mean,
you
know
how
this
works.
There's
there's
omics,
,
you
know,
they
have
the
the
beginning
of
the
of
the
lifespan
of
typical
omics
technology.
It's
fantastically
expensive.
People
only
use
it
if
they
absolutely
have
to,
nobody
knows
how
to
analyze
the
data.
And
then
over
here
on
the
other
end
is
the
situation
where
it's
cheap,
it's
commoditized,
everybody
does
it,
every
CRO
has
it,
everybody
knows
exactly
how
to
analyze
it.
So
the
NGS
stuff,
I'm
gonna,
I
these
are
not
in
any
useful
order
at
all.
I
apologize.
Next
gen
sequencing
is
the
one
that's
furthest
on
the
commoditization
scale
here.
I
think
you
all
know
this.
Single
cell
transcriptomics,
still
dominated
by
10x.
It
is
fairly
commoditized
now,
right?
You
can
get
that
done
at
any
CRO
you
want.
The
first,
say,
half
of
the
analysis
pathway
is
pretty
standardized.
You
don't
have
to
intervene
in
it,
you
can
automate
it
completely.
And
then
the
later
stages
of
analysis
are
the
ones
where
you
have
to
have
somebody
sitting
there
and
saying,
okay,
what
do
I
actually
want
to
do
with
this
data?
Because
the
analysis
that
you
do
from
then
on
changes
depending
on
what
kind
of
question
you're
trying
to
ask.
Eleanor Howe
That
is
not
the
case
with
bulk
RNA-seq
as
much
because
single
cell
just
has
more
degrees
of
freedom.
There's
more
you
can
do
with
it,
it's
more
complicated.
Spatial
sequencing
technology,
mostly
spatial
RNA-seq,
in
when
I
think
about
it,
is
about
where
single
cell,
generic
single
cell
was
in
2020.
So
it
is
more
expensive,
it
is
harder
to
work
with.
The
tools
that
you
might
use
to
analyze
the
data
are
less
well-defined,
less
complete,
and
choosing
what
to
do
with
it
is
totally
Wild
West.
It's
all
over
the
place,
things
are
not
very
standardized.
It
is
fascinating
data,
and
also
nobody
uses
it
unless
they
have
to,
because
it
costs
a
lot.
But
it's
great
stuff.
And
that
is
something
that
when
the
cost
comes
down,
it
is
going
to
also
be
transformative
for
all
of
us.
Proteomics
is
one
where
O-Link
is
still
the
dominant
player.
O-Link
is
a
hybridization-based
protein
detection
tool.
Direct
mass
spec
is
still
too
expensive
to
be
really
done
en
masse,
although
people
are
doing
it.
But
I
don't
see
any
kind
of
inflection
point
in
like
changing
how
these
technologies
are
applied
or
deployed.
They're
pretty
steady
right
now,
as
far
as
I
can
tell.
Some
of
the
things
that
are
interesting,
though,
is
that
people
are
just
being
real
creative
about
combining
various
kinds
of
omics
together
and
building
specific
assays
that
are
for
whatever
particular
problem
they
have
at
the
time.
I
just
have
a
couple
examples.
Eleanor Howe
Immunoptidomics.
I
love
when
people
like
stick
together
like
six
different
words
to
make
a
new
omics,
right?
This
is
great.
This
is
one
where
you
want
to
know
what's
being
presented
by
a
white
cell.
Like
what
is
the
white
cell
cutting
up
inside
itself
and
holding
out
for
the
rest
of
the
immune
system
to
look
at?
So
you
kind
of
salt
wash
the
peptides
off
of
the
MHC
complexes
and
then
run
them
through
a
mass
spec,
and
then
you
can
see
what's
in
there.
And
some
companies
need
this,
like
absolutely
need
this,
because
they're
trying
to
target
one
of
these
proteins.
They
want
to
know
if
it's
being
presented.
So
this
is
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
is
extremely
cool
about
where
the
omics
world
is
going,
is
that
there's
a
billion
mini
omixes
that
are
being
created,
and
they're
all
different
and
they
are
all
analyzed
completely
differently.
It's
fascinating.
There's
this
nutty
combination
omics
where
you
do
long
read
sequencing.
There's
a
particular
library
prep
you
mark
the
methylation
sites,
and
then
you
do
long
read,
and
at
the
same
read,
on
the
same
reads,
you
can
detect
both
the
sequence
and
the
methylation
state.
And
then
in
post-processing,
you
can
assess
the
phasing
of
the
of
the
variants
and
detect,
you
know,
did
which
parent
did
each
of
these
variants
come
from?
That
it
like
it's
a
lot
of
data
for
one
library
prep.
I
think
I
think
that
that's
kind
of
awesome.
And
then
people
also
keep
inventing
new
stuff.
One
customer
came
to
us
and
said,
Can
you
detect
copy
number
from
single-cell
RNA-seq
data?
And
we
said,
maybe.
And
yeah,
it
turns
out
you
can.
There's
a
couple
of
R
packages.
They're
in
my
speaker
notes,
which
is
gonna
be
available
on
the
site
after.
Eleanor Howe
Obviously,
you
can't
see
them.
Numbat
is
one
of
them,
copycat
is
the
other.
They're
pretty,
they're
R
packages,
both
of
them.
So
you
can
do
that.
Anyway,
I
think
that
this
is
where
this
is
where
our
field
is
going,
is
is
it's
not
just
it's
not
just
NGS
DNA,
it's
not
just
RNA-seq,
it's
all
of
these
ultra-specific
technologies
that
you
know
the
work
is
in
figuring
out,
well,
what
what
question
am
I
what
am
I
asking
of
this
biological
system?
What
do
I
want
from
these
cells?
And
then
going
and
looking
at
the
huge
list
of
possible
assays
that
you
can
run
and
picking
the
right
one,
and
then
figuring
out
how
to
manage
that
data
when
it
comes
out.
All
right,
what's
next?
Ha.
All
Leadership Whiplash And Human Accountability
Eleanor Howe
right,
I'm
back
to
the
AI
thing.
Yeah,
you
can't
escape
it.
Again,
in
my
interviews
with
people,
I
get
different
stories
about
how
people
are
approaching
the
AI
transformation.
And,
you
know,
middle
of
the
road
is
usually
the
best
way,
it
turns
out.
I've
gotten
stories
about
people
basically
feeling
like
they're
on
a
ping
pong
table
because
their
leadership
keeps
changing
their
mind
about
how
they're
approaching
AI.
At
first,
it's
no,
you're
not
allowed
to
use
any
chat
bot,
anything,
we're
not
touching
it,
nobody's
allowed
to
do
anything.
And
then
a
month
later,
oh,
we're
AI
all
the
time,
we're
gonna
onboard
this
vendor
company
that
does
AI,
we're
you
know,
we're
AI
forward,
and
people
are
getting
whiplash
from
these
changes.
And
then
in
other
places,
folks
who
are
at
all
critical,
like
me,
of
what
AI
can
do
are
being
sidelined
for
being
insufficiently
enthusiastic.
And
that's
a
mistake
as
well,
because
the
critics,
you
know,
they
sometimes
have
a
point,
right?
And
so
I
think
what
I'm
saying
is
like,
listen
to
the
critics
too.
There's
some
real
criticisms
there.
Obviously,
you
can
tell
where
I
stand
on
that.
This
is
a
bacterial
culture,
by
the
way.
Eleanor Howe
All
right.
What
I
tell
my
team
is
I
told
them
I
want
you
to
use
these
LLM
tools.
I've
licensed,
we're
licensing
two
of
them
so
that
we're
protected.
Or
you
know,
the
lawyer
reviewed
all
the
documents
and
we
decided
we're
gonna
pick
these
two.
And,
you
know,
by
the
way,
Gemini,
in
my
not
lawyer
opinion,
has
the
better
indemnification
terms
and
is
a
better
legal
stance
as
a
licensee.
Again,
I'm
not
a
lawyer,
you
shouldn't
listen
to
me,
but
I
prefer
Gemini
for
that
reason.
But
my
team
wants
Claude
because
according
to
them,
Claude
is
the
best
for
coding
by
far.
That
will
probably
be
different
next
year.
And
I
told
them,
like,
here
are
these
tools,
I
want
you
to
use
them,
learn
how.
It's
really
important
that
we
stay
ahead
of
this
stuff
and
we
know
how
to
use
these
tools
effectively.
And
everything
that
you
generate
is
your
responsibility.
Even
if
the
AI
wrote
the
code,
it's
your
work.
And
so
if
you
don't
know,
if
you
can't
assess
whether
this
is
right,
you
shouldn't
be
doing
it.
I
love
that
archive.org
has
put
in
place
this
code
of
conduct
change
where
if
the
submission
that
you
give
them
has
evidence
of
having
been
insufficiently
reviewed
after
LLM
generation,
they
will
just
ban
you
for
a
year.
All
the
authors,
the
whole
author
list,
they'll
ban
all
of
them.
And
the
way
that
they
check
is
they
look
for
hallucinated
references,
they
look
for
notes
like,
I
wrote
this
paragraph
and
I
wanted
you
to
review,
you
know,
like
the
kind
of
you
know,
the
meta
talk
that
the
LLMs
do
for
you.
They're
like,
oh,
I
did
this,
any
sign
of
that
stuff,
and
you
permaband,
not
permaband,
it's
banned
for
a
year,
and
then
there's
like
a
probationary
period
of
some
kind
after
that.
I
think
that's
really
smart.
You
have
to
be
responsible
for
what
the
LLM
made
on
your
behalf.
And
that
is
another
reason
that
I
say
that
working
with
these
tools
is
exhausting
because
reviewing
all
of
that
work
takes
a
lot
of
thought
and
energy.
Eleanor Howe
Okay,
I
wanted
to
talk
about
a
few
other
talks
that
I
saw
at
BioIT
World.
I'll
just
click
through
these
because
the
slides
are
on
the
website.
You
can
find
them
later.
Oh,
yeah.
So,
Doa
Mugaheed,
you
are
in
the
audience.
I
know
you
are,
I
saw
you.
There
you
are.
Hello.
She
ran
a
panel
yesterday
about
this
Global
Alliance
for
Open
Sciences
work
and
about
the
concerns
about
scientific
funding
and
what
do
we
do
about
it.
That's
all
on
the
website.
This
talk
is
an
excellent
overview
of
how
to
actually
use
a
coding
agent
to
help
you
build
something.
I
loved
this
talk.
This
was
super
practical
and
really
great.
And
then
John
Q,
full
disclosure,
was
one
of
my
co-PIs
for
my
PhD.
He
gave
a
great
talk
that
about
network
biology.
Again,
transcriptomics,
you
can
sense
a
theme
here.
And
I
think
he
did
a
great
job
of
showing
the
complexity
of
the
transcriptome
a
bit.
And
I
think
it
it
shows
you
a
little
bit
about
why
the
data
sets
that
we
have
are
not
sufficient
for
training
a
foundational
model,
and
maybe
gives
you
a
hint
about
what
we
would
actually
have
to
do
to
generate
that
data.
All
right.
Oh
wow,
30
seconds.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
All
right,
fine.
I
got
the
go-ahead.
So
this
is
just
a
summary
though.
Rapid Fire Summary And Closing
Eleanor Howe
We're
basically
at
the
end.
Coding
agents
are
changing
things.
Kitchen
sink
model
training,
not
so
much.
Small
models,
focus
models,
yes,
working
much
better.
But
try
the
simple,
stupid
model,
like
the
data,
those
small,
dumb
models,
like
you
know,
linear
models,
random
forests
is
not
as
dumb,
but
you
know,
simpler
than
you
know
a
neural
network.
Try
those
out.
The
data
that
gets
curated
so
carefully
in
order
to
feed
these
AIs,
that
benefits
the
cheaper
and
easier
models
too.
You
may
find
that
you
get
a
lot
more
bang
for
your
buck
out
of
random
forests
or
lasso
or
something.
I
do
think
oops,
sorry.
I
do
think
that
these
technology
advances
will
continue
to
enable
us
to
actually
build
models
that
are
useful
for
things.
And
I
am
so
I'm
watching
closely
how
that
market
is
changing.
And
then
don't
simulate
your
data.
It's
a
terrible
idea.
Make
more
or
share
with
others.
All
right,
here
are
some
of
the
folks
I
talked
to.
And
yeah,
thanks
to
everybody
for
listening
and
for
everyone
who
talked
to
me
about
this.
You
guys
were
super
informative.
And
to
my
team
who
does
the
work
with
our
clients,
and
thanks
to
them
as
well,
everybody
here.
And
like
there's
a
lot
more
names
that
I'm
not
putting
up.
I
can't
name
everyone,
but
they
all
contributed
to
this
talk.
So
thanks
everyone.
Announcement
If
you
enjoyed
this
conversation,
we'd
love
for
you
to
leave
us
a
review
and
subscribe
wherever
you
get
your
podcasts,
or
visit
us
on
the
web
at
www.biopython
itworld.com.